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"What is going on is the creation of, and investment in, perhaps the biggest behavioural change experiment yet attempted, global in scale. And what are the deciding factors in what behaviours global society should adhere to? And more importantly, who decides? This is a rhetorical question, as we know full well the answer: the same Western white male saviours and the capitalist economic system they have implemented globally that has been the cause of our planetary ecological nightmare. This crisis continues unabated as they appoint themselves (yet again) as the saviours for all humanity – a recurring problem for centuries."
"What is going on is the creation of, and investment in, perhaps the biggest behavioural change experiment yet attempted, global in scale. And what are the deciding factors in what behaviours global society should adhere to? And more importantly, who decides? This is a rhetorical question, as we know full well the answer: the same Western white male saviours and the capitalist economic system they have implemented globally that has been the cause of our planetary ecological nightmare. This crisis continues unabated as they appoint themselves (yet again) as the saviours for all humanity – a recurring problem for centuries."
This article got really popular. But it was so long, really hard for me to follow, and difficult to scan. Congrats if you read the whole thing. I found an interview with the author Cory Morningstar, which I listened to while digging holes and it seems to have been sufficient. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7LM-RjXaY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7LM-RjXaY) I think it comes down to a few things 1. the whole non-profit industrial complex thing, and their championing Greta's call 2. Greta's call is to align with the Paris Agreement 3. The Paris Agreement has nothing to do with green house gasses, but serves said industrial complex. The connection which stood out to me the most is Greta's call for alignment with the Paris Agreement, which has no meaningful connection to green house gases according to ecological economist Clive Spash. He outlines this claim in videos online as well as the paper Cory cites, "This Changes Nothing." Like [@hvetemel](/user/profile/hvetemel) , I looked into Clive's work on matters of ecology and economics. He's not on Twitter, but he has a *ton* of work on his website [https://www.clivespash.org](https://www.clivespash.org)
This article got really popular. But it was so long, really hard for me to follow, and difficult to scan. Congrats if you read the whole thing. I found an interview with the author Cory Morningstar, which I listened to while digging holes and it seems to have been sufficient. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7LM-RjXaY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7LM-RjXaY) I think it comes down to a few things 1. the whole non-profit industrial complex thing, and their championing Greta's call 2. Greta's call is to align with the Paris Agreement 3. The Paris Agreement has nothing to do with green house gasses, but serves said industrial complex. The connection which stood out to me the most is Greta's call for alignment with the Paris Agreement, which has no meaningful connection to green house gases according to ecological economist Clive Spash. He outlines this claim in videos online as well as the paper Cory cites, "This Changes Nothing." Like [@hvetemel](/user/profile/hvetemel) , I looked into Clive's work on matters of ecology and economics. He's not on Twitter, but he has a *ton* of work on his website [https://www.clivespash.org](https://www.clivespash.org)
You have to applaud the attention to detail here. I guess my comments would be: - It seems safe to assume that most sustained cultural movements today are in some way backed by rich (white, male, etc.) people looking for ROI. The chances that a movement gets broad, sustained attention from society without misaligned financial backing might be close to nil. Does that mean we have to dismiss every cultural movement as completely value-less and dishonest, not contributing to the causes they claim at all? Things seem more ambiguous to me: I'm not sure why the climate movement can't be both filling plutocrats pockets _and_ promoting a good cause, to some degree. - Not to sound cliché, but what is the suggestion being made here? I get the sense it's easier than ever to throw around well-researched critiques, and harder than ever to make serious suggestions. I'd like to see pieces like this, clearly the product of much time and effort, apply at least some of that effort towards the difficult work of suggesting something better. Any ideas from other commenters? If we should not support Greta Thunberg and this latest batch of climate protests, what should we be doing about the climate?
You have to applaud the attention to detail here. I guess my comments would be: - It seems safe to assume that most sustained cultural movements today are in some way backed by rich (white, male, etc.) people looking for ROI. The chances that a movement gets broad, sustained attention from society without misaligned financial backing might be close to nil. Does that mean we have to dismiss every cultural movement as completely value-less and dishonest, not contributing to the causes they claim at all? Things seem more ambiguous to me: I'm not sure why the climate movement can't be both filling plutocrats pockets _and_ promoting a good cause, to some degree. - Not to sound cliché, but what is the suggestion being made here? I get the sense it's easier than ever to throw around well-researched critiques, and harder than ever to make serious suggestions. I'd like to see pieces like this, clearly the product of much time and effort, apply at least some of that effort towards the difficult work of suggesting something better. Any ideas from other commenters? If we should not support Greta Thunberg and this latest batch of climate protests, what should we be doing about the climate?
Without having read the full piece yet, to reply to your comment on the second part, I would refer you to get into ecological economics. There are critiques in that field that the article above would disagree woth - but I am currently reading an introductory textbook “Ecological Economics: principles and applications” [https://cutt.ly/ow0jD8i](https://cutt.ly/ow0jD8i) “A change in vision from seeing the economy as the whole to seeing it as a part of the relevant Whole—the ecosystem—constitutes a major par- adigm shift in economics. In subsequent chapters, we will consider more specific consequences of this shift.” Chaper 2, “A Paradigm Shift” My intention of reading this book was to discover plausible solutions and not just critiques of capitalism. While my readings aren’t complete - I get the sense that there might be economic and technological solutions to the environmental crisis- but that it has to be completed by a paradigm shift in how we see growth, distributions and economics
Without having read the full piece yet, to reply to your comment on the second part, I would refer you to get into ecological economics. There are critiques in that field that the article above would disagree woth - but I am currently reading an introductory textbook “Ecological Economics: principles and applications” [https://cutt.ly/ow0jD8i](https://cutt.ly/ow0jD8i) “A change in vision from seeing the economy as the whole to seeing it as a part of the relevant Whole—the ecosystem—constitutes a major par- adigm shift in economics. In subsequent chapters, we will consider more specific consequences of this shift.” Chaper 2, “A Paradigm Shift” My intention of reading this book was to discover plausible solutions and not just critiques of capitalism. While my readings aren’t complete - I get the sense that there might be economic and technological solutions to the environmental crisis- but that it has to be completed by a paradigm shift in how we see growth, distributions and economics
"Greta Thunberg is being strategically exploited by the World Bank, the UN, and the non-profit industrial complex that serves the ruling classes. They are using her to advance their own self-interests and objectives – that are in direct opposition to everything this young woman brilliantly articulates. This is being presented as a “leaderless movement” – very much the “New Power” methodology and religion for the capitalists – theorized by Jeremy Heimans (Avaaz/Purpose) for mass movement building – that serves the most powerful and destructive forces on the planet. The manipulation of young, malleable minds is at the foundation of Western indoctrination in order to insulate a failing system and mask the market solutions being designed to address it. Market “solutions” that benefit the rich at the expense of the environment. Hence, the youth are always the sacrificial lambs of the non-profit industrial complex." ACT II
"Greta Thunberg is being strategically exploited by the World Bank, the UN, and the non-profit industrial complex that serves the ruling classes. They are using her to advance their own self-interests and objectives – that are in direct opposition to everything this young woman brilliantly articulates. This is being presented as a “leaderless movement” – very much the “New Power” methodology and religion for the capitalists – theorized by Jeremy Heimans (Avaaz/Purpose) for mass movement building – that serves the most powerful and destructive forces on the planet. The manipulation of young, malleable minds is at the foundation of Western indoctrination in order to insulate a failing system and mask the market solutions being designed to address it. Market “solutions” that benefit the rich at the expense of the environment. Hence, the youth are always the sacrificial lambs of the non-profit industrial complex." ACT II
[@m0zrat](/user/profile/m0zrat) , I had a similar reaction to the article. Re: "why the climate movement can't be both filling plutocrats pockets _and_ promoting a good cause" I think there is reason to be skeptical here. Anything that entrenches capitalism's demand for exponential growth on a planet with limited resources is probably not going to end well. But, to your point, if we are able to make the switch to solar, we'll be better off, so I'm not quite ready to write off Greta as a pawn of sinister capital, its definitely better than nothing. I think the biggest challenge facing climate activism is the fact that its really hard to imagine something other than a. capitalism and b. nation states competing economically with no global body with any meaningful power. Even for something like carbon credits to actually work would requires a robust global regulatory body and UN isn't quite cutting it. Degrowth is an idea that is starting to trend but again, its really hard to imagine how it can actually happen without it looking like a doomsday scenario or North Korea. I guess one takeaway is that capitalism in intrinsically bad at dealing with something like climate change, so we MUST try to imagine something else.
[@m0zrat](/user/profile/m0zrat) , I had a similar reaction to the article. Re: "why the climate movement can't be both filling plutocrats pockets _and_ promoting a good cause" I think there is reason to be skeptical here. Anything that entrenches capitalism's demand for exponential growth on a planet with limited resources is probably not going to end well. But, to your point, if we are able to make the switch to solar, we'll be better off, so I'm not quite ready to write off Greta as a pawn of sinister capital, its definitely better than nothing. I think the biggest challenge facing climate activism is the fact that its really hard to imagine something other than a. capitalism and b. nation states competing economically with no global body with any meaningful power. Even for something like carbon credits to actually work would requires a robust global regulatory body and UN isn't quite cutting it. Degrowth is an idea that is starting to trend but again, its really hard to imagine how it can actually happen without it looking like a doomsday scenario or North Korea. I guess one takeaway is that capitalism in intrinsically bad at dealing with something like climate change, so we MUST try to imagine something else.
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